Visual Novel Translations~

[X-Calibar]

Ys suffers from a small crowd, albeit dedicated; and these new Visual Novels are taking the same hit... [those that are interested are usually hard-core fans, and yet after convincing other people to try them they are usually seem quite interested.  It's just spreading the word and convincing people to spend the time is the hard part!]  I try to let people know about Ys, but I feel these products are in the same shape.

So basically...
I'm really curious to see how many people on these fourms have tried a translated Visual Novel; especially how many have actually bought one..!  I mention the US company Hirameki which localizes the few good Visual Novels they can afford to get their hands on, that are suitable Teen and above audiences; I know they are suffering from a lack of people willing to try their Visual Novels, so I just wanted to see how many people here have tried them here.

And if you haven't tried them but know about them, then why not? 
What are your thoughts on the matter?
I just really hope they make it here.  [But in the meantime I need to buckle down on my Japanese ]


Don't know what a Visual Novel is ? http://www.hirameki-int.com/what01.html
or Wikipedia's answer :

A visual novel (ビジュアルノベル, bijuaru noberu?) is an interactive fiction game featuring mostly static graphics, usually with anime-style art. As the name might suggest, they resemble mixed-media novels or tableau vivant stage plays. Visual novels are classified as a sub-genre of adventure games, referred to as AVGs in Japan. Visual novels are especially prevalent in Japan, where they make up nearly 70% of PC games released.[1] They are rarely produced for video game consoles, but the more popular games are sometimes ported to systems such as the Sega Dreamcast or the Playstation 2. The market for visual novels outside of Japan, however, is nearly non-existent.

http://www.hirameki-int.com/index.html - Hirameki's Webpage
http://www.rightstuf.com/ - Where you can order Hirameki's stuff internationally


The hottest Hirameki product in my opinion would be either Ever17 or Phantom of the Inferno.
The big fan translated novels right now would be Tsukihime, or Wind ~a breath of heart~, although both of those are hard to get at the moment... [$$$]
Planetarian however is easy to get ! [and a great short story at that]

Hopefully I'm not going overboard on advertising But if I don't try to tell people, ... then who will?
I'd love to hear NightWolve's review on Phantom of the Inferno...
(after you play it of course lol)

Oh right and for free visual novel's :
Here are bunch of fan translated festival entries~!
 
http://altogether.insani.org/2005/
http://at2006.haeleth.net/

[NightWolve]

Your thread started looking all lonely, X-Calibar, so I thought I'd at least make a courtesy post for ya.

Well, I can't say I have any interest in visual novels. I'm pretty picky when it comes to giving something a chance though. I did manage to find a RPGFan review of the game you're referring to from that site and I guess it looks OK, but my time isn't what it used to be, so it's not something I'd ever take the time to try out.

[zaratus]

Hmm, the closest I can say I've played to a visual novel would probably be the Phoenix Wright DS games, Radical Dreamers on SNES, or Famicom Detective Club also translated on SNES.   

I do read a lot, so I'd probably be interested, but I've never actually sought any visual novels out.  Depends on the quality of the story, if it's sounds interesting, and how the translation (localization!) is handled...  I find just from browsing around the internet, usage of -kun, -san, -chan and so on really gets annoying.  Besides being unnecessary, it seems that it makes something not flow as nicely, and more difficult to read. 

I have a tendency to avoid things that use those excessively. 

I'm sure there's something I'd like somewhere, if I'd bother to actually look.  =P 

[Psycho DeuceBag]

I find just from browsing around the internet, usage of -kun, -san, -chan and so on really gets annoying.  Besides being unnecessary, it seems that it makes something not flow as nicely, and more difficult to read.

THANK YOU.  It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who hates that shit.  Japanese honorifics have no place in English, outside of a textbook.

[Justus]

I've played some, back when I used to be a lot more into anime and manga.  In all honesty, I think most visual novels are little more than alternative manga.  The storylines, and in fact the entire experience, is very similar.  There's usually no real gameplay to speak of.

So if you like typical manga, visual novels offer a unique experience, with high resolution full color artwork, usually some limited animation, a few sound effects, a musical soundtrack, and usually a more detailed prose than what's in most manga.  Hmm...putting it like that almost makes it sound halfway between anime and manga...with detailed prose. 

If you dislike manga, or have some kind of caveat about what "should and should not be a video game" limiting what kind of software should be permissable for putting on a computer, then you'll probably hate visual novels.

I will say that visual novels tend to lack the scope of genre present in manga.  Currently, visual novels tend to almost ALWAYS contain an overflow of young female characters and are usually about romance (and pornographic for that matter).  Even the setting is the typical "modern day Japan in high school" thing, though I have seen a few with sci-fi themes or something.

It's that way because of the typical fanbase.  The medium itself has quite a lot of untapped potential...that will likely continue to be untapped.  I don't really care for visual novels anymore for the same reason I don't watch much anime or read manga anymore.  I got older and expanded my life experiences, and the stories are made to appeal to people with issues I don't have anymore.  There are things I can find appealing: the artwork is some of the most ridiculously detailed stuff you'll ever see and every now and then the music is good too (though usually in that Japanese "elevator music but more harmonically complex and less repetitive" kind of way).  Ultimately, it's not enough to make it worth sitting through any more Japanese coming-of-age stories for me.  The typical sexualization of cartoon schoolgirls is a deterrant for me as well.

I feel that anime, manga, and visual novels are all artistic mediums that could have a lot of potential if the market wasn't so completely locked on Japanese adolescent males.

[Platypus]

I've played Snatcher for the MSX, that is kind of a visual novel right? A bit old perhaps. And Tsukihime of course. I like them both, but I guess I understand why the genre isn't big outside Japan.

[Varion]

I find just from browsing around the internet, usage of -kun, -san, -chan and so on really gets annoying.  Besides being unnecessary, it seems that it makes something not flow as nicely, and more difficult to read.

THANK YOU.  It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who hates that shit.  Japanese honorifics have no place in English, outside of a textbook.

You're not, but you're definitely in the minority unfortunately. If only the whole translation scene had more people who thought that way... as it stands, most are now past just shoving honorifics in, we're now getting random Japanese words too! Most fansubs don't bother translating 'bento' now for example. Normally when you read an English translation you don't expect to have to know random bits of Japanese the 'translator' thought you should, but that's how it seems to work these days. As for the honorifics, it's even more ridiculous when they're included in things blatantly not set in Japan. Like recently one studio decided to make an anime based on Les Miserables... yup, you guessed it. Romeo and Juliet will probably be the same.

So anyway, visual novels. I've generally enjoyed what I've tried, though most of my wanted list is out of reach at the moment. Ever17, while it had some memorable moments (Tsugumi's ending, especially) was brought down by the fact that half the character development was really, really dull, half the music was equally boring (but then some tracks were great) and the plot twists near the end were beyond ridiculous. It had great potential but didn't quite live up to it. Phantom of the Inferno I've bought, but haven't bothered with due to the horrible DVD system - I'd be a lot more interested if they had a proper PC version, but apparently it didn't sell well enough... ah well. Planetarian was a mixed bag. I couldn't stand Reverie for half the story, then got into it more after loving the Planetarium scene, but then felt the conclusion was dragged out too much. It felt like the writer was poking me with a stick saying 'Are you crying yet? Huh?' every few seconds. I wasn't.

Where's Narcissu on that list though? It only lasts just over an hour but that was probably the second most memorable VN I've read because of the beautiful music, simple but effective visuals and the fact the story never felt heavy handed unlike Planetarian. It was a sad story, but never really felt forced. Finally, Tsukihime. It's a shame a proper copy is so hard to come by ($250 on Yahoo Japan Auctions... yay?) because it was a really great story even the translation felt quite stiff. Vampires are easy to make a boring story out of because they've been done so many times, but the further you get in it to the more you realise why it did so well despite first being released at a little table at a convention. Can't wait for the Fate/stay night translation to be completed to read more of Nasu's work.

As for the complaints about adolescents and school settings, yeah, you definitely have a point. The situation at least seems to be getting slightly better, though. The market's become so oversaturated with small companies thinking they can make a quick profit that if you want to sell a decent amount of copies, you have to stand out in some way. As a result we get VNs like Scarlett, which is set across half the world, Moonlight Carnival (a town in Italy), Katahane, Utawarerumono and such, then those that unfortunately keep the school setting but have their interest focused elsewhere, like Higurashi and Fate/stay night. Yes, the majority remain boring and generic, but it's not like wading through crap to find hidden gems is anything new or exclusive to visual novels in any way.

Zaratus, I'd love to produce a huge list of recommendations that don't have those problems but well... I can't. The only translation group I can think of that doesn't have a straight 'all honorifics must stay' policy is Insani who do mostly demo translations but also handled Narcissu and Planetarian, neither of which had any as far as I can remember, but they're both pretty short. The genre probably would have something for you... if the translators actually translated instead of bringing things to a state where 'someone trying to learn random bits of Japanese from anime will appreciate it even if it sounds really stiff as a result'. I've just learnt to deal with it because I still enjoy quite a lot of anime, VNs and such, much as it still frustrates me.

Were any of the al|together titles any good by the way, X-Calibar? I'm guessing at least a few were, but don't really feel like going through all of them one by one to find out.

[Justus]

Snatcher is sort of an anomoly of a game that falls somewhere in between being a visual novel and a game like Shadowgate or Deja Vu.  It's a Kojima game, of COURSE it's an anomoly.

[SkyeWelse]

The only visual novel-esque games I've played are Radical Dreamers, Phoenix Wright, Another Mind, Genso Suikogaiden vol. 1&2, and Super Adventure Rockman. I do really like the genre from what I've played but there is so much text to translate that it makes it quite difficult to warrant it to be published outside of Japan since most of America doesn't seem "ready" for it quite yet. However, I think especially with the DS there are several Visual Novel-esque titles coming out, Hotel Dusk for one which is a very interesting game so far.

-SkyeWelse

[NightWolve]

Radical Dreamers on SNES

This was the one I tried once. I was curious about it since it had come from Squaresoft. Alas, it had two things going against it though. One, I'm at that point where trying to play any SNES game is difficult or rather impossible with few exceptions given the influence of PC and modern gaming systems on me (as you know), and two, I guess I'm just not ready for having to deal with so much text in a video game (or one just built around text).

[X-Calibar]

Whoa, was surprised to see responses :

Your thread started looking all lonely, X-Calibar, so I thought I'd at least make a courtesy post for ya.

Thank you looks like it needed a jump start

I guess the reason I stumbled onto Visual Novels was because of Ys 1 & 2 Complete~   After discovering the translation scene on the net, I started looking for more games; and that's when I found the VN genre.

A little background:  Besides my infatuation with anything Anime-style, I've managed to avoid Manga completely [except some from friends], there's only so much money I can toss around in entertainment at a time, and I've chosen to focus it on Anime and now VNs. 

Not that I don't play FPS games [I do], and love state of the art [I want a 3d monitor lol];  VNs are such a backwards leap for me in an industry of hack and slash, little character development and focus on the latest thing.  Even console Japanese RPGs which since fateful Final Fantasy 2 (US) I've been enjoying,  I've grown a little hesitant to spend money and time on and instead have been looking for a new taste [although I still collect the real nice looking ones and intend to play sometime ]  VN like games or VNs themselves are finally something between books and the ordinary games...

The music, voice talent, color and animation [anime style~] are simply what I want to load up with new experiences and story.   I mean the last big English game I remember enjoying the way I did Phantom of the Inferno was the Baldur's Gate Saga which gave me huge story and a fair amount of Character-developement to boot...

So basically VNs are offering me a new alternative to the existing market, and that's why I want to see them thrive in English...

Phoenix Wright DS games, Radical Dreamers on SNES, or Famicom Detective Club also translated on SNES.   

  I actually haven't played any of these although I have some to try, I just have gotten so backed up...

I find just from browsing around the internet, usage of -kun, -san, -chan and so on really gets annoying.

Yeah, lol   As I mentioned I've only mostly played Planetarian, Phantom of the Inferno and Ever17... those didn't have those honorifics stuck in there... and I appreciate that they didn't.  It just seems out of place in english. 

In all honesty, I think most visual novels are little more than alternative manga.  The storylines, and in fact the entire experience, is very similar.  There's usually no real gameplay to speak of.

For me it's having a good story, music I will enjoy, voice actors, and nice artwork [color dude COLOR!]

I will say that visual novels tend to lack the scope of genre present in manga.  Currently, visual novels tend to almost ALWAYS contain an overflow of young female characters and are usually about romance (and pornographic for that matter).  Even the setting is the typical "modern day Japan in high school" thing, though I have seen a few with sci-fi themes or something.

The one advantage here I suppose with romance is that I never looked for that kind of thing in games; and the games that I've played don't focus on it very heavily [about the same as a typical movie would]  Oh and Tsukihime and Wind I hear have an option to remove the unneeded pornographic scenes if desired, it's nice to be able to choose.  The whole modern day Japan school thing is a bit tried, but so far I've purposely avoided those games.  Phantom takes place in the US for the most part, Ever17 takes place in an underwater themepark for lack of a better description, Planetarian... well guess lol 
As I play through more games maybe I'll be able to comment on this better.

I don't really care for visual novels anymore for the same reason I don't watch much anime or read manga anymore.  I got older and expanded my life experiences, and the stories are made to appeal to people with issues I don't have anymore.

I've avoided fan-subbed anime, and for a long time now anime in English on TV;  As open as I am to everything I've only chosen the high profile or non-generic retail animations to watch...
On one hand I have Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 1st and 2nd Gig in DTS which gives me solid futuristic action, and on the other hand I have Texhnolyze an artistic dark view on the world, Key the Metal Idol a very strange dark and colorful supernatural story, or Card Captor Sakura super happy cheerful sweet artwork Clamp goodness...  By being strict on my diet of anime suppliment I've kept my interest levels high

Ever17, while it had some memorable moments (Tsugumi's ending, especially) was brought down by the fact that half the character development was really, really dull, half the music was equally boring (but then some tracks were great) and the plot twists near the end were beyond ridiculous. It had great potential but didn't quite live up to it. Phantom of the Inferno I've bought, but haven't bothered with due to the horrible DVD system - I'd be a lot more interested if they had a proper PC version, but apparently it didn't sell well enough... ah well. Planetarian was a mixed bag. I couldn't stand Reverie for half the story, then got into it more after loving the Planetarium scene, but then felt the conclusion was dragged out too much.

I've been slowly playing through E17, namely a day in E17 for a day in RL, I'm nearing the end [Tsugumi's ending will be the next I'm going for]...  You're right kinda though, the character development isn't quite as rich as I'd hoped, and I'm picking up slack on that end, but I'm still enjoying it~  Phantom.... If you like spy novels, you'll probably really enjoy Phantom for the most part.  The dvd version suffers a bit, [I mean I bought the game but didn't actually give it the time of day to play after a quick test run for about a year] but it's too good to pass up, now that I know.
And finally Planetarian, I was finally able to try it fully voiced, and I really enjoyed it.  [I downloaded it first *sweat* then bought it after discovering I enjoyed it.]  The voice adds to it though.

Where's Narcissu on that list though?

HAven't gotten around to playing it... in fact I have about 49 Visual Novel related icons on the desktop waiting to be played; I've purchased the other Hirameki games ahead of time waiting to be played... I'll eventually get to em

Were any of the al|together titles any good by the way, X-Calibar? I'm guessing at least a few were, but don't really feel like going through all of them one by one to find out.

Sadly I've only played a few of them so far, OMGWTFOTL was uh .. lol probably worth a quick trial just so you can go WTF lol

I noticed this on visualnews.net
http://visualnews.net/2007/02/20/review-midsummer-days-resonance/#more-192
That might be a good one to try...  The nice thing is most of these are short stories, so I'll start going through them once I get around to it.
[Actually some are still being finished and released from the 2006 al|together festival... last one I got ended up being like 70 megs?? or something big, so I'm interested to see what they created]

@SkyeWesle - Hmmmm maybe I should check out the DS after all.. lol  If I ever get the time
@NightWolve - I'll have to finally try Radical Dreamers so I can compare it to the others I've tried...  Still I won't give up hope, eventually I'll find one to blantantly highly reccomend to you lol

[zaratus]

Radical Dreamers was a trip, that's for sure.  After you finish the first scenario, some of the alternate scenarios are quite... out there. 

And Varion, you reminded me of another annoyance - besides honorifics, the untranslated japanese tidbits.  I do NOT want to have to look up the meaning of every tenth word.  Umm, I don't even remember what it was exactly, but there were a number of words that weren't translated.  I don't know what most of them meant, and I didn't care to look it up. 

If I'm going to read or watch something, I'd rather it be fully translated. 

I'm not really into anime or manga that much, so I don't get bombarded with it much at all.  Just occasionally on the web.  If I watch anything at all, it's generally something at a friend's recommendation, or something that seemed interesting that I saw somewhere.  Which, again, isn't very often. 

[Psycho DeuceBag]

Normally when you read an English translation you don't expect to have to know random bits of Japanese the 'translator' thought you should, but that's how it seems to work these days.

That's one of the reasons I just tend to avoid anime entirely, anymore.  Aside from the fact that the overwhelming majority of it (as in, 99.9999999% of it) is complete crap, I mean.  Even the licensed translations are frequently rife with amateurish hackwork.  It's bad enough that virtually every show in existence invariably uses some minor variations on the same few lines... ("OMAE DAKE WA YURUSANAI!!!" and the like) but you'd think that the translators would actually want to inject some flavor into the dialogue, so it doesn't read like Babelfish.  Japanese sentence structure simply does not work in English.

And there's also the fact that all Japanese voice acting... all of it... is horrible. Every single line is overpronounced, hammed up and slowed down.  None of it sounds a bit like actual, conversational Japanese.   Most non-native anime fans tend to have this fanciful notion that the Japanese voices are better-acted simply because they're Japanese, which isn't the case... rather, they only seem better-acted because one doesn't actually understand what they're saying.

[Dave Shadoff]

Psycho DeuceBag, regardless of your opinions on the quality of Japanese voice acting, I honestly don't believe that it can transcend the sheer crappiness of 99.9% of American animation voice acting. 

The only exceptions being motion pictures by Disney and Pixar.

[Psycho DeuceBag]

The only response I can make to that is that, unless you have learned the language and had ample opportunity to compare real Japanese to acted Japanese, you have no idea.  It's easy to denigrate English voice acting because of lousy English dubs (of which there are many)... but there's a lot of great English voice work out there.  Even the stuff which is deliberately overwrought, like the Legacy of Kain series, isn't even remotely on par with the level of hamminess brought forth by pretty much every single piece of Japanese entertainment in existence.

It's not necessarily a knock against the Japanese... it's just the way things are.  If game/anime Japanese were anything like real conversation, most would find it impossible to understand.  They ham it up because they like it over-the-top.  Take your average 80s action flick from the US.  That's about the quality level we're talking about for pretty much any anime or game you can think of.  Everything from Inuyasha to Yuu Yuu Hakusho to Castlevania to Cowboy Bebop to Tenchi Muyou! to Ah! My Goddess to Final Fantasy to etc. etc. etc.  Try to speak like that (even the formal stuff) in actual conversation with a real Japanese speaker, and you'd likely get laughed at, assuming you don't outright insult the listener.

Take it from me: never, ever attempt to learn Japanese from anime and games. You will learn it completely wrong, and it takes years to undo the damage.  I speak from personal experience.

And yes, I used to be a rabid anime fan.  Once I actually learned to understand the subtleties of what I was watching (or more accurately, listening to), I found that I could no longer stomach most of it.

[X-Calibar]

I'm still a diehard fan of the over the top lol  [even in English... Thinking of Ghaleon from the Lunar series; I absolutely love the theatrics]
I've always taken the japanese anime/game style as like an opera of sorts; The amount of odd energy that goes into their portrayal of characters, it's so crazy and out there and I've become a sucker for it lol
Not knowing to draw the line between Japanese entertainment and actual conversations on the other hand would be a terrible mess...
I've been casually going through Learning Japanese audio tapes and recently Rosetta Stone; so I feel I've been pretty safe about seperating the two worlds.  I don't know much yet; especially outside literal meanings, but I noticed things pretty fast in anime, that you don't want to do, unless maybe you're just a kid and in character after comparing actual conversations lol

[Psycho DeuceBag]

I've always taken the japanese anime/game style as like an opera of sorts; The amount of odd energy that goes into their portrayal of characters, it's so crazy and out there and I've become a sucker for it

That's actually a very good way of putting it.  Personally, I found I couldn't stand it, outside of, say, a fighting game, where it's quite appropriate.

[TDOMMX]

I have been a fan of anime for a little over ten years, and I have been a fan of visual novels for around three.  I have to disagree with the claim that all Japanese voice acting sucks.  Granted, I have seen many series with terrible acting, but I have also seen series that couldn't have been done better.  No, most anime doesn't use conversational Japanese, but most American films don't use conversational English either -- both dramatize scenes to make them more immersive and enjoyable to watch.  If that didn't happen, movies and TV shows would sound the same as anything caught on hidden camera.  Even candid news report interviews are dramatized to a certain degree.  I will admit that the Japanese dramatize their stuff a lot more often.

On the other hand, I absolutely hate it when an actor (voice or otherwise) overdoes their part to the point of nausea.  I detect this alot in English anime / game dubbing.  Either that, or the actors don't really care and the voices sound quite flat.  However, some people put the extra effort to make the voices sound great (Megaman X8, the Metal Gear Solid series, Indigo Prophecy).  In the case of X8, I cannot bring myself to switch back to the Japanese voices simply because the dub is done so well (making the original sound crappy in comparison).  Sadly, I cannot include Ys VI on that list (ugh... Terra...).

On another note:  I have actually seen people complaining about non-literal translations precisely because they intended to use the game in question as a learning tool instead of a textbook.  HAH!

Although my visual novel resume isn't as extensive as that of others, I can definitely vouch for Phantom of Inferno, Ever 17, Kana, and Crescendo.  I have heard great things about Figures of Happiness, Private Nurse, Snow Drop, and Hourglass of Summer, but I'll reserve my judgement on those until I've completed them myself.  I have to disagree with those who believe that VNs are the same recycled teenage-schoolboy-finds-love cliche or anime-porn sex romps.  Granted, there are plenty of them (Crescendo is an *excellent* example of the high schooler theme done right), but the others I have recommended are counterexamples to this gross overgeneralization.

In Phantom of Inferno, you are a young amnesiac who is forced to learn the ways of an assassin.  In Ever 17, you play as one among a half-dozen people who have been stranded in an underwater theme park, the result of an accident which will cause the park to implode in a matter of days.  In Kana, you are the older brother of a terminally-ill girl, and are forced to come to terms with her (almost) inevitable demise.  None of these titles can be branded as "dating sims" (if anyone dares try, they must admit to having a really f#$%ed-up concept of a date), and all of them explore a variety of thought-provoking themes such as death, revenge, morality, and unconventional topics like cloning, alternate realities, suicide, and the Pygmalion effect.  Even Crescendo, as cliche as its premise may seem, explores its fair share of interesting topics and earns my prize as the best visual novel I have ever played (with Phantom coming in at #2).

On the amateur side of things, I can recommend Narcissu and Red Shift.  These titles are too short to summarize without giving away major spoilers, but I'll mention that they touch on mortality, terminal illness, suicide, arrogance, and self-sacrifice, and don't try to touch romance with a sixty-foot pole.  Tsukihime (which I have not played through as of this writing) has spawned a number of sequels, an (atrocious but atmospheric) anime adaption, and a manga retelling, recounting the story of a boy who is suddenly able to see through the eyes of Death itself.  This title has been acclaimed for its fully-fleshed-out storyline despite its low production values.  Lastly, Higurashi ni Naku Koro ni (again, not personally played) has similar claims to fame (spinoffs, anime, manga, low budget) and tells the story of a group of schoolkids and their gradual descent into madness.  Like I said before, if these are dating sims, someone really needs to learn what a date is like.

I'm not saying all Visual Novels are great.  I've played a fair share of bad ones as well (Day of Love, Tsuki, and the Do You Like Horny Bunnies series, to name just a few).  I have also played decent but flawed titles such as Chain and Wind -a breath of heart-.  I'm beginning to ramble, so I'll close by saying that branding a visual novel as a pornographic dating sim is the equivalent of comparing all live-action films with porn videos.

PS:  A Midsummer Day's Resonance is pretty nice, but its not spectacular.  It's pretty short, so I suggest you check it out.

PPS:  I don't like it when people abuse the applaud / smite system.

[Psycho DeuceBag]

On the other hand, I absolutely hate it when an actor (voice or otherwise) overdoes their part to the point of nausea.

My point is that, in all the anime I've seen in my 20 or so years of watching it, that has uniformly been the case.  Yes, it's deliberate, but that doesn't make it any more tolerable.  It's all done on a grander scale than anything seen in English, with the possible exception of childrens' cartoons.  And unless one is familiar with Japanese on a conversational level, one does not pick up on this, no matter how much one may wish to claim otherwise.

The conventional mindset of the neophyte anime fan generally never strays far from, "I can't understand it, but listen to those intonations! They really must be putting a lot of heart and feeling into it!"  They're not.  It's just melodrama.  They ham it up because it's essentially tradition to do so.  The Japanese like melodrama.  It's just as ludicrous as the claim from the same group that says anime "isn't cliched like American stuff is."  It's just as cliched as anything else... it just has a different set of them.

If you like Japanese voice acting, that's all well and good.  I like it too, up to a point. But don't try to claim it's somehow inherently great, because it isn't.

dub is done so well (making the original sound crappy in comparison).

Cowboy Bebop is like that.  Hate the original voices.  Megumi Hayashibara needs to be shot.  Or just given a tracheotomy.  That'll work.  Maybe it'd improve her range.

Sadly, I cannot include Ys VI on that list (ugh... Terra...).

Let us never speak of that again.  Both sets of Ys VI voices were crap.

[TDOMMX]

My point is that, in all the anime I've seen in my 20 or so years of watching it, that has uniformly been the case.  Yes, it's deliberate, but that doesn't make it any more tolerable.  It's all done on a grander scale than anything seen in English, with the possible exception of childrens' cartoons.  And unless one is familiar with Japanese on a conversational level, one does not pick up on this, no matter how much one may wish to claim otherwise.

While I don't totally agree, I can see your point.  There are plenty of VN / anime characters that I would enjoy seeing killed solely because I find their voices obnoxious.  Lisianthus from Shuffle, Wakaba from Wind, and pretty much every spaced-out airhead character in existence grates on my nerves (both genders).  I don't mind so much when the voice is a subtle way of hinting that the character is putting up a pretense or indicative that something's a little off (Kaede from Shuffle), but some actors make this distinction quite difficult.  It's refreshing to find a title wherein none of the voices are overacted or underacted, but titles like these aren't the norm.

I think anime has desensitized me to melodrama a bit.  After I reviewed a VN stating that the dialogue never gets overly melodramatic (in my opinion), some of the readers criticized me for not acknowledging some particularly over-the-top scenes.  However, I notice a clear (and sometimes jarring) difference between a character's voice and the actor's natural voice in any behind-the-scenes footage.  I suppose the best way to get otaku to acknowledge that anime doesn't use real Japanese is to force them to watch these segments (and club them upside the head until they get the point ).

The Japanese like melodrama.  It's just as ludicrous as the claim from the same group that says anime "isn't cliched like American stuff is."  It's just as cliched as anything else... it just has a different set of them.

If you like Japanese voice acting, that's all well and good.  I like it too, up to a point. But don't try to claim it's somehow inherently great, because it isn't.

Point taken, though I have never considered either forms of animation to be cliche.  I have recognized tons of cliches within each respective medium (ie: anthropomorphic characters and exaggerated movements in cartoons, character stereotypes and cheesy dialogue in anime, predictable plot twists in both).  I have a tendency to favor anime that strays away from tried-and-true formulas; I have personally condemned Lamune for being nearly identical to other series I had seen, only not nearly as well executed (I could use the same argument on tons of games).  On the other hand, series such as Ergo Proxy and Noein are so out there (not to mention pretentious) that you cannot help but become confused (unless, I kid you not, you are currently a graduate student working on a Master's Degree in Quantum Physics).  On the other hand, I love it when cliches are done right (Neon Genesis Evangelion, Crescendo).

I don't think any language is inherently superior or inferior to any other.  I have dealt with English and French since I was born.  Americans have a tendency to romanticize French, and I have grown to hate the language for a variety of reasons.  I *could* take a quick trip south of the border and pick up a few girls with my knowledge of "the Language of Love" (Bwahahahah!!! ...I'm sorry, I can't say that with a straight face...  ), but I don't because the language disgusts me (that, and it pretty much guarantees a girlfriend with lower IQ than me).  I guess it's fair to say that the way you view Japanese in anime and the way I view "American" French is the same.

[Psycho DeuceBag]

However, I notice a clear (and sometimes jarring) difference between a character's voice and the actor's natural voice in any behind-the-scenes footage.  I suppose the best way to get otaku to acknowledge that anime doesn't use real Japanese is to force them to watch these segments (and club them upside the head until they get the point ).

I generally tend to like the notion of clubbing otaku over the head anyway.  Including myself, ten years ago.  But yes, the difference is startling.  Particularly when you hear someone like whatsisname who plays Shingo in KOF and Treize in Gundam Wing (can't remember his name) speaking normally versus the "acting voice."

I have a tendency to favor anime that strays away from tried-and-true formulas

The only anime I've truly liked in the last several years has been Gungrave.  I have to respect a series that isn't afraid to kill off well-developed characters.

Neon Genesis Evangelion

There simply are not enough expletives in the world, in all languages combined, to express my seething hatred of that show.

I guess it's fair to say that the way you view Japanese in anime and the way I view "American" French is the same.

I don't view English as inherently superior.  I take issue with those who regard Japanese voiceovers as better than English simply because they're in Japanese.  It is a viewpoint born solely of ignorance (and quite often, sheer pigheadedness).

[X-Calibar]

Jumping on the anime trail I feel like jabbering; skip if uninterested :P

The first time I became interested in anime was when I went to China on a vacation ages ago; flipping through the TV one night I came upon some unknown space epic animation; had no clue what they were saying but I was hypnotized lol  There wasn't anything like this at home... Wish I could understand it were my thoughts; watched it anyways lol

The person who informed me and got me interested in Anime however, was absolutely in love with Evangelion and was against watching most, if any dubs; At some point I found a clip on the internet, of Deedlit casting the light spell in japanese in the first episode; to light up the underground mural...
That scene won me over to the dark side [anime] lol 

After finding Lodoss and purchasing it as my first anime, from there on I fell in love with what animation.  It was able to achieve what I couldn't find anywhere else...  Long epic stories to watch on TV...!  That particular anime I watch exclusively in english [their voices really grew on me even if especially in the beginning; I felt awfully annoying lol]  Since then though I've watched almost all my anime in Japanese...

Maybe it has something to do with the fact, that for the longest time I never really paid attention to musical lyrics, I listen for the song; and with Japanese it was just that to me. 

A lot of time has passed since then, I've collected a ton of anime, dare say I understand just a little now lol  And I notice commonly used phrases like Omae dake... etc   To be truly fair, I wish to watch all the anime I have eventually in English too.  Switching back and forth should give me a fair idea of which set of actors I feel fit the voices better;  lol What does this make me?  Someone who looks at the aesthetics; the body (in this case the voice) lol  Rather than how the message is being told.

But, fear not someday I may share your pain as I learn more... lol
My favorite anime series currently are... [yeah you knew this was coming :P]
Princess Tutu for a beautiful experience, interesting story; I absolutely love Swan Lake lol

Ghost in the Shell : Stand Alone Complex in DTS [both seasons]  This series is lacking brilliance; but it's extremely professionally made, and its fantastic universe kept me begging for more

Record of Lodoss War OVA was what got me hooked on anime; I haven't seen a gem quite like it, outside of Lord of the Rings movies, Baldur's Gate etc  Even with its faults..

El-Hazard OVA ...  There's nothing like a teacher who quits smoking to gain GODLY SUPER POWER!

Cardcaptor Sakura and Azumanga Daioh are really great light hearted fun tales.  [I believe I saw Azumanga once in english and wasn't impressed... but after watching Anime HEll 3 lol I fell in love]

Perfect Blue.  The first time I saw it, I was chilled to the bone~

Macross Plus episode format - There are few short animations that I love... This one left a good/great impression.

Devil Lady, ohhh I really enjoyed this little known horror anime.

Aura BAttler Dunbine was for the most part an excellent series from the distant past...  Of the Gundam type series' out there this one I found the most interesting.

X TV - I really like this series, but I still feel it's far from what it could have been...  Nonetheless I have to say it is a good one.  [Plus It's X!]

Kenshin OVA, I found myself really enjoying that one. The TV series had it's own charm; completely different though from the OVA.

Irresponsible Captain Tylor lol

Runner up series for me would be Escaflowne, Blue Seed, Gundam 08th, Megazone 23, Hellsing, dot hack, I really enjoyed Gundam W in english back in the day, Key the Metal Idol, Those who Hunt Elves, Tenchi Muyo! OVA, R.O.D. TV was mostly pretty good~, Fushugi Yugi
The others I've seen I liked but not as much~ [aka Texhnolyze, Chrno Crusade, etc etc]
had to get that out ..! [Haven't seen Gungrave, it's on the list to see along with Gankutsuou, Ergo Proxy, Loki Ragnarok, Gilgamesh, Twelve Kingdoms, RahXephon, etc... ]

EDIT: The Sonic the Hedgehog animation trailer for the anime was excellllent.  I had infinitely high hopes for Sonic... lol  Sigh.  Turned out the animation was an odd kiddie show :P  I really saw so much potential too...

[TDOMMX]

Nice resume, X-Calibar.  Lodoss was one of the many titles I rented from local video stores when I was first getting into anime (back in high school, long before I had internet access).  Lisa Ortiz does an absolutely perfect job as Deedlit, and most of the other characters are well-done too (well, everyone except Shiris and maybe Etoh).  I'm annoyed that the follow-up TV series' dub is nowhere near as good as the original OAV (Parn sounds like a superhero!  But at least the "Welcome to Lodoss Island" segments are well-dubbed)...

Just a few quick comments regarding a few of the series you listed:

Evangelion - My official swearing-in to anime.  Prior to this, I had seen Ninja Scroll, Teknoman, Fatal Fury, and Street Fighter II V.  However, it wasn't until I saw Eva that I was totally indoctrinated into anime.

El-Hazard - I have seen all of the incarnations of El-Hazard.  AIC's quality varies from series to series...  The first series is probably the best.  Minor correction:  it's avoiding booze, not cigarettes, that gives Sensei the FUJISAWA POWAH.

Macross Plus - I've seen both the anime and movie versions, and I find some parts of the movie to be more believable (ie: Isamu not answering Myung's distress call because he's busy getting laid).

Kenshin OAV - Yep, I loved it too.  It would have been nice if the TV series had the same tone.  Oh well.

Tenchi Muyo - About halfway through, I started rolling my eyes at the Tenchi OAVs.  I think the two TV series and the movies are better (though I have not seen the entirety of Tenchi Universe yet...).  GXP, on the other hand, is absolute garbage.  If you haven't seen it yet, trust me, you don't want to.

I can highly recommend both Gungrave and Gankutsuou.  For best effect, however, skip the first episode of Gungrave.  You'll thank me for it later, and you won't miss a thing (the first episode is a flash-forward, and the plot twists up until that point are best enjoyed without advance knowledge of what's going to happen).

I suggest you stay away from Ergo Proxy.  The series can be euphemized as a mind-fuck, and you have to be able to stomach random game-show and Alice-in-Wonderland themed episodes (completely out-of-place in a dark, serious series) as well as incoherent psychobabble.  On the positive side, I'm amused by the messed-up idea of a game show host offering to commit suicide if the contestant wins...

From what I've seen RahXephon is interesting, but it's not high on my priority list at the moment.  The opening theme is quite catchy, I must admit.  Apparently, the movie is a condensed retelling of the series.

Let me know which genres you are interested in (romantic drama, harem comedy, sci-fi, giant robot, horror, etc...) and I can make a few personalized recommendations.  I have successfully converted the mother of my niece from a naysayer into an anime fanatic in a matter of months, so I'd like to think my recommendations are pretty worthwhile.

[X-Calibar]

The only anime I've truly liked in the last several years has been Gungrave.  I have to respect a series that isn't afraid to kill off well-developed characters.

You might like Devil Lady...

"Parn sounds like a superhero!  But at least the "Welcome to Lodoss Island" segments are well-dubbed"
lol yeah I was disappointed with the change; Welcome to Lodoss Island was pretty funny though lol

As for Evangelion; It's been a long time since I've seen it, I need to re-watch it sometime~
I don't have the new Platnium re-release of Eva... I'm going to wait and see if they release a HD release;[been fearing this lol and eagerly awaiting wondering which series can be upgraded :P]

Here's a probably complete list of what I have :
www.geocities.com/x-calibar/anime.txt

I'm open to anything that you thought was good; regardless of the genre [I like to check the reviews by Chris Beveridge from animeondvd.com]
Oh and as for DBZ lol I enjoyed that when I first got into it... [Came on when the Freiza battles were just starting out, that one epic battle was by far the best lol; and er stopped watching after it moved on after a while; to other strange long battles]

EDIT: as for anything on topic ...!
Here's an ametuer? Visual Novel translation work in progress that looks like it might be interesting?
Saya No Uta Script Translation
http://forums.visualnews.net/showthread.php?t=7274

[NightWolve]

Perfect Blue.  The first time I saw it, I was chilled to the bone~

Hm, oddly enough I own this in VHS form actually. It was just a random gift my sister picked up long ago, not the result of any anime dedication, serious or otherwise. I mostly have no idea what you guys are talking about.

What's always stuck in my mind from it: "Excuse me, who are you...? Excuse me, who are you...? Excuse me, who are you...?" Good movie that one.

Anyway, carry on.

[zaratus]

Lodoss War was my first exposure to anime as well...  I think...  It was so long ago.

One of my friend's dad from back then was into anime, and I remember seeing a few anime from back then...  I only can remember a few, and one was Lodoss War, though it was only the first episode, and I'm not sure if it was subtitled or not - it might have just been entirely japanese, with neither a sub nor a dub.  But, Lodoss War stuck in my mind, just from that episode, and later on, I eventually tracked it down. 

Hmm, I do remember something from Macross, though I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about it.  Hmm, the only other one I can remember was Bubblegum Crisis, and again, I remember nothing about the anime itself, what it was about, whether it was a dub/sub, if at all, nada. 

That's all that I can remember at least, though there *may* have been more.  Other than that, the other early exposure to anime was when Sci-Fi channel used to show occasionally Vampire Hunter D, Lensman, and Robot Carnival.

Overall, I've not seen all that much anime.  Something that gets shown occasionally on TV, but not very often.  I own a little bit, but not a whole lot.  The aforementioned Lodoss War, Trigun (from probably at least a year before Cartoon Network aired it, I forget what exactly got me to buy Trigin though.), the second Vampire Hunter D movie, and a few episodes from a couple other anime.  I don't generally watch or buy much.  A friend of mine was/is really into anime though, he used to have a ton of the stuff.  Or used to rent a ton of the stuff.  Whichever. 

[TDOMMX]

Interesting list.  It contains a lot of series that I wanted to check out, but never had the time to.

Since you seem to like dark anime, I'll throw in a couple more recommendations.  I already mentioned Gankutsuou and Gungrave, so here are a few others.

Basilisk is a tragic love story a la Romeo & Juliet, but with ninjas.  The action is on par with Ninja Scroll, which is surprisingly absent from your list.  A bit over-the-top, but a worthwhile watch.

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni ("When the Evening Cicadas Cry") is an excellent series that juxtaposes cute characters with horrific situations as the mental state of a group of schoolfriends gradually deteriorates.  Based off a (non-adult) visual novel with the same name.  A sequel is currently in the works.

Jigoku Shojo ("Hell Girl") is a series focusing on the concept of revenge.  It is mostly episodic, so knowledge of previous episodes is not required to enjoy the next.  As such, the writing quality fluctuates, but when it's good, it's very good.  A second season is currently airing in Japan.

Despite its terrible Japanese voice acting, I also enjoyed the remake of Mermaid Forest.  It's a series about a pair of humans-turned-immortal who are desperately trying to regain their humanity.

Monster is an excellent story about a doctor's good intentions and their unexpectedly horrific consequences.  I believe it has earned prizes for Best Story and Best Villain, and I wholeheartedly think it deserves it.

Grave of the Fireflies is a tragic film about two orphans struggling to survive in post-war Japan.  I really cannot say more than that without spoilers.  Be warned that if you are sentimental, you will definitely find yourself in tears.

Hellsing Ultimate is a remake of Hellsing that more closely follows the plot of the manga (which I have not read).  The series has a similar, but distinct feel from the original anime series.

Death Note is a twisted story about a overachiever with a lot of time on his hands who suddenly finds himself with the powers of a Grim Reaper.  Critically-acclaimed, and rightly so.  Based on a manga with the same name.

Lastly, to offset all this darkness, I recommend a short, light-hearted comedy:  Today in Class 5-2.  Based on a single-volume manga, I never would have expected fifth-graders to be this hilarious.  Each episode is split into about 5 segments, making it great for when you need a quick pick-me-up.

Back to the main topic of visual novels:

I'm pleased to report that School Days is finally being translated.  I have been looking forward to this title ever since the prologue was fansubbed on AnimeSuki.  While an anime adaption is due out in July, I'm sure that much of the content would have to be cut out (namely, very graphic violence and some sex).  Although the prologue makes the series look quite "sanitary", the animated gifs I have seen of the endings (damn you, spoilers) make me intrigued as to how the story could become so twisted.  Being able to see the original title, even with its dull (and probably realistic) voice acting, is something I am definitely looking forward to.

[X-Calibar]

Hey! Thanks for the detailed recommendations, I've heard of some of them and I will keep an eye out as well as adding them to my To Get list
I had heard about most of those except Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Jigoku Shojo.  Oh I never did see Ninja Scroll, it was on HBO in english a long time but I never got around to watching it.

I would like to see all of those you put down... Thanks for the heads up!
Here are five anime music videos in thanks ~!
[I'm hoping to build a nice collection of favorite anime music videos but it takes time... these have spoilers in them usually! So be warned!  But, for videos I personally liked all of em ]My Only One - Fakir/Ahiru Tribute [Princess Tutu]Lodoss - Love & WarKorn - Let's Get This Party Started(Escaflowne amv)Key The Metal Idol - Remember (AMV)AMV - DevilLady - Gravity

[X-Calibar]

I should have mentioned this a while back but
Melty Blood and Fate/Stay Night, Fate route have been translated and released!

http://mirrormoon.org/

All I can say is I wish I had $$$ right now..!
The Fate/Stay Night demo was delicious... Still it's better I wait I think, I really want to see Rin's route lol

Doesn't look I'm going to have any luck finding youtube videos on right now, so here's the fate stay night disillusion song:

[TDOMMX]

While I always keep myself up-to-date on English visual novel news, I appreciate the the effort on your part.  Thanks.

I spent almost all of last week playing through Tsukihime.  Although I already learned the characters' backstories when I first became interested in Melty Blood way back in college (and had no idea that the original game would ever be translated), the way the events actually played out was different than I had imagined (that's both good and bad).  As I expected, the anime version was a pretty-looking travesty, and, to be honest, I see no possible way in which a made-for-TV anime adaption of Tsukihime could have worked.  An OAV series or manga retelling would have turned out nice, but there's too much they would have to censor for a TV broadcast.  Well... a manga adaption is currently being published, so let's see how well that pans out.

Anyway, I've played through all of Insani & NNL's demos, and I agree with you about Fate.  I won't play through the game until a 100% patch has been released, though (I hate stopping partway in a VN).  I have already seen the anime, but I am somewhat disappointed in the ending and some of the censorship techniques they used.  Here's hoping that the original version is better...

As for Melty Blood, a new patch is going to be released at the end of the month, and I have half a mind to wait until then before playing through it (I have tons of stuff I can go through in  the meantime to keep myself busy).

I was trying to add a couple of anime recommendations to my list earlier, but my internet connection crapped out then.  This season, my anime picks are Hayate no Gotoku, Romeo x Juliet, and Sola.  I'd give a synopsis of each, but I think "less is more" in the case of these three titles.  I recommend checking out 2-3 episodes of each and seeing if you like them.  Romeo x Juliet is to the original story as Gankutsuou is to The Count of Monte Cristo.  In this case, that's definitely a good thing.

In the past two months, I have  played through I'm-not-quite-sure-how-many new visual novels.  I haven't been keeping count of how many titles I have played through, but I think I can give a pretty fair evaluation of titles if anyone is interested.  Most of the titles I have played through are from G-Collections, but I know quite a bit about other titles as well (I own almost all of Hirameki's catalog despite only having played through three of them).  If anyone has any questions, ask away.  Who knows; sudden questions may prompt me to bump a title to the top of my queue.

[X-Calibar]

I am looking forward to playing Tsukihime, Melty Blood and Fate/Stay Night   I actually know next to nothing about all three except from the demo, and bits and pieces I accidently have run into.  It sounds like Tsukihime is much darker than I originally thought~
And Fate/Stay Night, I think I'm going to wait for the 100% as well;  I haven't even seen the anime for Fate or Tsukihime yet either lol  Although I would love to.
 I really want to see Rin's path after playing the demo.  I talked to someone who had watched the anime, and heard from people who have played the game and seen the anime; and it's a safe bet that the game is much better.  [but it's not anime :/]   

I've yet to play the countless demos and mini-visual novels that I've gotten, I'm actually still on Ever17!  Playing through all of the scenerios has taken some time [months]; I like to do one day of in game time, a day at night before sleep; and I really don't use the skip feature; and I've taken breaks between starting new games to keep my interest at max.  I'm nearing the finish-line though...

I'd love to check out those anime, and I will in time~  Right now I just don't have the spare change, and I'm spoiled enough with anime that I avoid youtube or downloading episodes etc  [love seeing anime on the big screen~!]

G-Collections eh?  Mmmmm How are they?  The ones I've had my eye on to get eventually...
Everyone tells me Crescendo and Kana ~ Little Sister are supposed to be really good; I've passed them up for a long time though, probably because of the type of story.  The others that I was wondering about were Figures of Happiness due to it's interesting art and story,  Heart de Roommate which I hear has a unique anime styled presenation [episodes, previews etc lol], DOR which I know nothing about, except interesting artwork, Chain ~ The Lost Footsteps which I passed up initially, till I heard it was a detective story... sounds like it could be interesting..!
Any reccomendations?

There are four new G-Collection games coming out if you haven't heard... Although only two have my interest currently~
Pretty Soldier Wars A.D. 2048 lol which has an interesting strategy [X-Com like] looking tactical battles [looks like losing is bad...!]  I preordered that because of it's uniqueness.
And there's Lightning Warrior Raidy which is a fully functioning dungeon RPG game..!  From the looks of it I fear it's going to be a ultra thin story, so I'm not sure yet.

I did get two Peach Princess games because the new ones seemed to have such a high budget, and the style..!  Haven't played them yet, YUME MIRU KUSURI :: A Drug That Makes You Dream, I knew nothing about and still haven't played, but the music, the style of artwork simply pushed me over the edge.  It was just shouting to me that this game has class, and wants to be purchased...  I hear a well-known writer actually did this one.  I'd recommend giving it a look..!
http://www.gwathyr.net/media/kusuri.mpg
Here's a link to the movie~  Just by looking at that, I knew it was different... And an instant buy

Er actually I bought one game before that, Yin-Yang - X-Change Alternate..!  If you know anything about that line of games it's uh I guess I'd say infamous lol  I actually er.. obtained the game a while ago and tried the the beginning of the game.
I was really surprised.  I quickly sank into the story and enjoyed it; it's unrelated to the original games.  Soon as you hit new game you quickly find an interesting story, and doesn't get to the stuff you expect until really building up an interesting setting.  The artwork, music, story was really just well done.  I mean IT is the reason I bought this, YUME MIRU KUSURI, and the 2048 game.   I only played just the first couple of days but I was that impressed lol.  I recommend at least checking it out.

The other new games look more like the typical games I avoid, but actually I'm interested to hear more about Snow Sakura, the artwork has me at least wanting to keep tabs on how it turns out..
I'm in this for the good and unique stories~

EDIT:unrelated: I absolutely love the Fate/Stay Night anime and game opening song~ [disillusion, illusion]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkfIGTnowns

[TDOMMX]

My visual novel backlog is pretty big at the moment, but I'm going through it at a pretty good pace (I have played through 10 titles in the past 2 months).  Since I'm on break until late June (when my university night classes start), I expect to be able to read through a lot of them.

Well, here I go.  I'll skip synopses if I would be forced to include any spoilers.

Tsukihime is probably the most popular amateur-made visual novel in existence.  It spawned several sequels, an anime adaption, a manga retelling, and tons of merchandise.  Although set in present-day Japan, it includes many supernatural elements, most notably vampires and demons, plus the usual dark themes such as insanity and sexual violence.  It is highly acclaimed for its character development and intricate backstory, which is a rarity in dojin works.  Although I am usually adamant about playing through games / watching movies in their original format, I recommend using the R-rated patch instead of the uncut version as there are many scenes that I thought were quite tasteless.  The anime version, as I said before, is attractive but terrible.  The manga, on the other hand, is pretty good from what I've read.

Melty Blood is a semi-sequel to Tsukihime in the sense that it does not follow any of the endings in the original title (it combines many elements from the various routes, which can be a bit disorienting at first).  It combines the visual novel component of its predecessor (and higher production values) with a fighting system very similar to Guilty Gear.  As I mentioned before, I was first introduced to MB in college, and I have been interested in the Type-Moon world ever since.  Unlike Tsukihime, it has no adult content.  I plan to play through it once the revised version of the patch is released.

Fate / Stay Night is Type-Moon's commercial debut following the success of Tsukihime and its official sequel, Kagetsu Tohya.  You've played the demo, so I don't need to give a synopsis.  The art quality and writing are greatly improved since Tsukihime, and I am looking forward to the 100% English patch.  I was disappointed in the ending of the anime; I hope the original version is better.

Ever 17 is one of the better VNs I have played, but I don't consider it to be the best (yeah, I'm picky).  I loved Tsugumi's scenario despite its heartbreaking ending.  The final scenario is quite a shocker (in the same way as the endings to The Sixth Sense and The Usual Suspects), and it will have you thinking for quite a while after you complete it.

Kana ranks among the Top Five VNs I have ever played.  It is the story of a bratty kid who is jealous of his kid sister, who is always being showered with attention.  He completely changes his attitude when he realizes the reason why she is getting so much attention.  Six ending in all, five of which are heartbreaking.  The art style isn't very good, but the story is excellent and the music is nice.  I wish the remake and/or sequel were translated...

Crescendo is the current reigning champion on my VN list.  The premise is nothing special:  Ryo Sasaki has four days remaining until graduation, and he is spending his last days tying up loose ends.  However, where the story goes from there ranges immensely.  Scenarios range from rosy high-school romance to outright tragedy.  Because of a direct tie-in with the true ending of Kana, I highly recommend you complete Kana first before playing this.

Heart de Roommate is the next title on my list.  From what I have heard, it is the story of a guy who is forced to masquerade as a girl in an all-girls school dormitory.  Supposedly quite good, but I'll reserve my judgement until I have played it myself.

Figures of Happiness was supposedly G-Collections last title (well, prior to being bought out by Peter Payne), and I hear they went out with a bang.  It is the story of the ghost of a young girl who died before having the chance to confess her love to the man of her dreams, and she asks the protagonist to help her out so she can move on.  I hope it lives up to the hype.

D.O.R. is a pretty crappy set of short stories that can be plowed through in less than 15 minutes each.  The art is dated, the music isn't very good, and the stories are downright terrible.  Don't waste your time.

Chain is a pretty good detective story.  I'll stick to my "less-is-more" stance on this one.  My only complaints, if anything, are the fact that it's entirely linear (despite the illusion of branching), and the sheer gratuity of some of the adult content.  Nonetheless, it is quite long and quite immersive.  Recommended.

I am also interested in A.D 2048 and Raidy, but I have some reservations besed on what I have seen.  I am very much looking forward to Snow Sakura, which was created by the same devs as Kana and Crescendo.  I couldn't care less about Bazooka Cafe.  Since there isn't much info available on these titles as of yet, I'll just have to wait and see.

Truth be told, I haven't touched most of my Peach Princess catalog.  I finished Water Closet (which is shitty in every sense of the word -- I mean that literally).  I hear Tokimeki Check-in is great, as is Yume Miru Kusuri.  Yin-Yang is a take on the Xchange premise with a new cast (hence the subtitle, "Xchange Alternative").  I plan to finish my GC titles before I move on to the PP ones, so I'll tackle those in due time.  The ones I am most looking forward to aside from these are Critical Point (good sci-fi story) and Snow Drop (which I have heard GREAT things about).  Little My Maid is also reputedly quite good.

As pompous as this may sound, I'd like to be able to play through every visual novel that gets released in English (be it officially or fan-translated).  I'm fairly liberal when it comes to content (ie: I don't care if there are tons of sex scenes, as long as said scenes have some bearing on the plot), but I draw the line at yaoi (shonen-ai is okay).  My current list of completed titles is pretty big considering I've only recently gotten serious.  Feel free to ask about any of them.  I have marked all the noteworthy titles.

G-Collections
-AngelSmile-
 - Private Nurse [Beautiful atmosphere & music, but disappointing ending]

-Digital Objet-
 - DOR
 - Crescendo [Excellent]
 - Kana -Little Sister- [Good]
 - Sensei 2

-Sekilala-
 - Come See Me Tonight
 - Come See Me Tonight 2
 - Idols Galore!

-Zyx-
 - Chain [Good but gratuitous]
 - Do You Like Horny Bunnies?
 - Do You Like Horny Bunnies? 2
 - The Sagara Family [Light-hearted but shamelessly gratuitous]
 - Tsuki
 - Virgin Roster -Shukketsubo-

-Other-
 - Hitomi -My Stepsister- [Dark and disturbingly realistic]
 - Jewel Knights - Crusaders
 - Let's Meow Meow
 - Slave Pageant

Peach Princess
 - Water Closet -The Forbidden Chamber-

Himeya
 - Amy's Fantasies
 - Eve Burst Error [Good but slightly convoluted]
 - Fatal Relations
 - Love Potion

Hirameki International
 - Day of Love
 - Ever 17 -Out of Infinity- [Good with superb endings]
 - Phantom of Inferno [Excellent]

Fan-Translated
 - Tsukihime [Insane and convoluted with tearjerker endings]
 - Neon Genesis Evangelion -Girlfriend of Steel-
 - Wind -a breath of heart- [Good but melodramatic]

Other Publishers
 - Fairy Nights
 - Hyper Animation Series Viper M1
 - Hyper Animation Series Viper V16 -Imagine- [Good except for the endings]
 - Hyper Animation Series Viper V16 -Rise-
 - Immoral Lesson
 - Immoral Lesson - Session 2
 - Legend of Fairies

Not really visual novels, but I'll list them anyway...
 - Hyper Animation Series Viper STG ("Limited Edition")
 - Love Love Show

Feel free to ask about any of these.  If a title isn't here, that just means I haven't played it yet.  You'll notice there's a lot of filth on this list.  I should mention that just because I'll played it doesn't mean I liked it.  I have given away quite a few games because I didn't want to possess something that disgusting (such as Water Closet).

[X-Calibar]

Thanks for that large post!

I've got a bunch of games to check out from Max Payne to Shadow Hearts to Tsukihime, knowing more about these helps me figure out what I should spend time on..!
So Crescendo takes the prize??  Interesting, looks like there's no avoiding that and Kana
And good to know about D.O.R.; had no clue

I'm not expecting a much from 2048, but the interesting looking battle system will get me to check it out...

I don't think I want to get the Hitomi game... Sounds disturbingly realistic
...Hyper Animation Series Viper V16 -Imagine-; I never gave that series the time of day, is it worth it?

Eve Burst Error; I wanted to check that out but never could find it; and confused it with Adam Double Factor.  What did you think about that one?  Worth trying to get a copy?
Oh, and Critical Point sounds interesting too; I love unusual settings.

And to give back for all the information...

When you decide to tackle the Peach Princess, here's a quote...

Peach Princess [NSFW] proudly shipped today Yume Miru Kurusi: The Drug that Makes You Dream. Contrary to many of their pure smut titles they stock, Yume Miru Kusuri is written by the relatively famed writer Romeo Tanaka (of the Cross+Channel [NSFW] fame) and released by the Will [NSFW] sub company Ruf [NSFW]. Scoring an 76 on Erogamescape [NSFW], Japan’s popular eroge meta-review site, it has been well received by the Japanese also.

http://visualnews.net/

Phantom and Ever17 had something in the 70s and 80s...

I don't know if you've heard of Policenaughts, it's currently being hacked/inserted [a famous? game for the Playstation].
http://policenauts.net/english/

Almost a decade old, Konami re-releases Policenauts on the Playstation for the second time in a lower-priced re-issue. Hideo Kojima's masterpiece originally saw release on July 29, 1994 on the NEC PC9821 and was eventually ported over to the Playstation and Saturn in 1996. Konami re-released Policenauts for the Playstation in 1997 under the Best Collection at Y2800 and six years later, here we are with another re-release of Policenauts.
If goaded into describing the game in 10 words or less, we might be tempted to call it "Futuristic Lethal Weapon, Hideo Kojima style." Let's face it, main character Jonathan Ingram is the video game version of Mel Gibson's Martin Riggs and Ed Brown is the spitting image of Roger "I'm too old for this $#!^" Murtaugh. Character similarities aside, Policenauts follows the story of Jonathan as he returns from cryogenic sleep in outer space and works to uncover

The quote is from this site.
Here's an article recently published about the english translation in the UK
http://forums.junkerhq.net/download.php?id=382
http://forums.junkerhq.net/download.php?id=381
[photos of the magazine article]
I'm quite interested.

Here's another fan translation project : here.
For Song of Saya [Saya No Uta], which has me interested with its dark style, plus it looks like work is well underway; the last page on that link has pictures recently added.Made by Nitroplus [Phantom of the Inferno]!

Oh and I didn't see you mention Planetarian?  Maybe you did in an earlier post...
Here... http://planetarian.insani.org/  It's a short Visual Novel? [actually known as a Kinetic Novel by their company] No choices just a linear story, I got it for 10$ [plus if you can get a hold of the cd version you can add voices to the 10$ version... [the patch doesn't support the uh CD version I think]  Compelling but short...

[TDOMMX]

Hitomi -My Stepsister- is the story of a teenager who essentially lives alone.  His father is a workaholic, and his parents divorced ages ago.  Strangely enough, his father is getting remarried, so his father's new wife and her daughter become the family he never had.

The story offers quite a bit in terms of variety (though there is a mental domination theme in every path - whether you are the dominator or dominated varies).  Unlike the other dark titles I have played (in which you take the role of unrepentant rapists), I found the justification for the dark subject matter to be frighteningly realistic.  Especially the reason for the blank look in Hitomi's eyes...  I can easily recommend this as the best dark title I have played (far better than Sensei 2, Tsuki, Virgin Roster, and the like; all of which made me feel like destroying the game discs).

There's a good reason why the Viper series has its ridiculous subtitle ("Hyper Animation Series"); every title is fully animated on-the-fly despite being a visual novel.  The animations flow seamlessly and the artwork is nice despite being retro.

Imagine is the story of a young computer science major and three of his university friends: a tomboyish actress, a shy voice actress, and an energetic singer.  Typical setup for a short romance story.  I enjoyed it, but the endings were so sudden and formulaic that it left a bad taste in my mouth.  It's rather short, but it's not a waste of time.  I doubt you'd be able to find a copy, but it's not bad considering Viper V16 has a low price tag.

The other Viper titles I have played had terrible premises.  I won't list them all, but one of them revolves around a trio of Anna Miller's waitresses being kidnapped by a subterranean race to be used as breeding vessels.  Ugh.  Suffice to say, there's a lot of rape in many of them.  STG "Limited Edition", on the other hand, is a two-stage horizontal shooter in which you play a flying succubus.  Really short playtime and non-existent story make me question if the "Limited" is an unintended play on words.

You can pick up Eve Burst Error at HimeyaShop.com for a mere $10.  Adam -The Double Factor- is the sequel to Eve, whereas Love Potion is Eve's semi-prequel (in the sense that two characters return in Eve, one as a cameo and one as a major character).

Eve itself is an intriguing story told from multiple viewpoints.  Kojiro Amagi is a private investigator who ran out of luck after he was forced to arrest his boss / mentor / foster father / girlfriend's dad.  He is suddenly hired to track down the whereabouts of a missing piece of art for a ridiculously high reward.  Marina Hojo is a Special Agent with an amazing track record who has been assigned as the bodyguard to a foreign ambassador's daughter.  As can be expected, the lives of these two people, along with a handful of others, influence each other in a way that none of them expected (pardon the cliche).

I love the way in which the various perspectives shed light on the story of Eve without revealing too much and constantly making you hungry for more.  The gameplay is a little repetive, especially having to switch characters in order to trigger specific flags.  The ending is a shocker a la Hideo Kojima.  As an added touch, you can only watch the final scene of the game once you have figured out who is responsible for the various killings that take place through the story (yes, there is a quiz!).

Adam -The Double Factor- takes place two years after the events in Eve.  I have not played through it yet, but I have heard that it is rather rushed and abruptly ends at one point.  The completed version of the story has been released under the name Eve -The Fatal Attraction-.  I have not yet played Adam, but it's on my list.

Love Potion is very disturbing and makes me question if it was written by the same guys as Eve.  Students have been disappearing from a Private All-Girls' Academy, and an agent of the Japanese Ministry of Education has been hired to go undercover as a teacher to find out the cause.  The story is tastelessly dark, and I can only recommend it to those who really want to see the backstories of Kyoko Himuro and Hiromi Matsuno from Eve Burst Error.  Otherwise, stay far, far away.

Critical Point is probably the first PP title I'll tackle once I finish with GC.  I played it for about 15 minutes, and I'm definitely looking forward to it.  Depending on my mood, I might go after Yume first, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

I can't believe I forgot to mention the non-VN publisher titles.  Shame on me!  I guess that's what happens when I write a huge post when I'm tired.

Anyway:
 - Snatcher [Hideo Kojima!]
 - Planetarian -The Reverie of a Little Planet- [Nice but saddening]
 - Narcissu [Beautiful with a sequel on the way]
 - Red Shift [Good but heartbreaking once you understand the ending]
 - Every Altogether translation festival release

I have never had a chance to play Policenauts.  I know Meryl Silverburg from Metal Gear Solid is in it, but that's about all I know.  Plus, more WTF Hideo Kojima writing.  I enjoyed Snatcher, but had a couple of issues with the ending.  Nonetheless, I don't think it was a waste of time.

Planetarian was sweet but tragic.  I can say the same for Narcissu and Red Shift.  As a side note, I'm shocked at how desperately optimistic some players can be; even if an open ending is painted in a dark, pessimistic light, some people cling to the belief that, since the final events are only implied, somehow everything is gonna be okay.  Planetarian and Red Shift both have such endings.  I recommend you check out Red Shift and share your thoughts on the matter.

[X-Calibar]

Eve Burst Error at HimeyaShop.com for a mere $10

Sadly I can't find a copy of Eve Burst Error on Himeya, E-bay or google!
Actually I've looked for it several times through the years since I got interested in Visual Novels and haven't had much luck.
EDIT: I did a pretty heavy lookup and I can't find the english version anywhere..!

http://atp.manga.sk/english/index.htm
found this site though, looks like a pretty comprehensive list of english games..!

I'm interested to hear how Critical Point goes~  Currently it'll be on my to get list.
As for Snatcher, I've seen a few images of Snatcher from the Policenaughts site but I really don't know anything about it, I'm expecting a lot from Policenaughts; I guess I should look up information on Snatcher then.

Perhaps after finishing Ever17 I'll fire up Red Shift.  Although I don't know if I'm in the mood for tragic just yet